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| Vegeta | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 23 2012, 06:42 PM (961 Views) | |
| SuperSaiyan1993 | Jan 23 2012, 06:42 PM Post #1 |
Super Saiyan among Super Saiyans
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His sole motivation after the saiyan saga was to beat Goku to redeem his honor. However, he wasn't defeated by Goku alone, it was through the help of Gohan, Krillin, and Yajirobe that Goku survived. Most of the damage did come from Goku. But after Vegeta became an Oozaru, Goku was finished. Concerning the spirit bomb, yes that was Goku's attack, but Vegeta should have no way of knowing this. He was fighting Gohan and only noticed Krillin throwing it. I understand that Vegeta thought he was the most powerful saiyan and that Goku did exceed his power with the kaio ken but the ultimate cause of his defeat wasn't Goku's fault(at least from what Vegeta was able to perceive) So, with all of this in mind, why would Vegeta pin the blame entirely on Goku? |
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Jan 23 2012, 07:21 PM Post #2 |
 
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When did Vegeta pin the blame all on Goku ? Anyway, Goku beat the daylights out of Vegeta and without Vegeta transforming Vegeta would have been killed (unless Goku chose to spare him mercy). |
| Victorious' fan made Dragon Ball Z Battle Power (Sentō-ryoku) list | |
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| SuperSaiyan1993 | Jan 23 2012, 07:24 PM Post #3 |
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Super Saiyan among Super Saiyans
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After the saiyan saga, he said that he had to beat Goku not his friends too. Therefore, the blame was all pinned on him. As for the transform or die part, Vegeta wanted to end it quickly. Besides, I doubt that Goku could fight effectively much more after using kaio ken x3 and a kaio ken x4 |
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| ForagingPanda | Jan 23 2012, 07:52 PM Post #4 |
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Goku would have lost. He could barely even stand up right before Vegeta transformed. |
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Jan 23 2012, 08:35 PM Post #5 |
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Well Vegeta transformed for a reason.....Vegeta interpretations of Goku's physical condition > your interpretations of Goku's condition. Edited by Victorious, Jan 23 2012, 08:38 PM.
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| + Pyrus | Jan 23 2012, 08:53 PM Post #6 |
 
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We as the readers knew the outlying factors, though. Vegeta didn't. He thought Son Goku would've been able to do more Kaio-ken barrages, as he couldn't sense Ki to see how weak Son had gotten. He thought Oozaru was the only surefire way to stay ahead of the power Son had displayed up to that point. But we know Vegeta would not have lost that fight unless he got super cocky and allowed Son to use the Genki-Dama. Son was out of energy, badly injured to the point where he could barely stand, while Vegeta was still ticking. |
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Jan 23 2012, 08:56 PM Post #7 |
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Vegeta was standing right in front of Goku....if he can just beat Goku's ***** right there he would have. Plus I don't see why Goku can't fire up another KKx3/4. He was in bad shape after the first KKx3 and still fired up a KKx4 later in the beam struggle. And Goku's fires up KK against Oozaru Vegeta and talks about theoretical KKx5s. I agree Son would have lost the fight for sure...against Oozaru Vegeta. But he already proved his superiority against Vegeta not being transformed. And Vegeta transformed, and Goku uses KK against Oozaruu Vegeta and talks about KKx5s. All that definitely seem to point that Vegeta would have been pounded again had he not transformed. Edited by Victorious, Jan 23 2012, 09:02 PM.
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| ForagingPanda | Jan 23 2012, 09:15 PM Post #8 |
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ObsessiveFanGuy is right. Vegeta had no ability to sense energy until after he arrived on Namek, and even then he was only starting to figure it out. Goku bluffed him by trying to stand tall for a minute. Fact is, Goku would have been able to put up virtually no resistance to Vegeta at this point. Goku put his entire essence into the energy attack he shot at Vegeta, while Vegeta put a decent amount but not everything. Because Goku was able to push Vegeta back, Vegeta thought Goku was stronger when in reality Goku lost everything with that attack. |
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Jan 23 2012, 09:40 PM Post #9 |
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Ohh c'mon dude, both put their all into the beam struggle. The rest of your post is pretty much just entirely conjecture. Goku pulled off a Kaioken against Ozaruu Vegeta, talked about Kaioken x 5s...and managed to take hits from him without getting killed. There's no way a non transforming Vegeta is stomping him IMO. Goku should win. Edited by Victorious, Jan 23 2012, 09:48 PM.
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| + Pyrus | Jan 23 2012, 10:40 PM Post #10 |
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Why would he risk getting beat down by another Kaio-ken x4 when he could just go Oozaru and squash the guy? Like I said, he didn't know Goku was out of Ki, and he'd just been royally embarrassed by his technique.
He literally states he's out of power, and so does Kaio. He couldn't even take a slap on the back from Yajirobe after the beam struggle.
That was a move out of desperation IMO; he couldn't maintain it to actually fight. Him speaking of Kaio-ken x5 was a hypothetical gesture. It was him thinking that even at full power, a Kaio-ken of that level wouldn't do squat. It wasn't him thinking, "Well, even though I could do it, it won't be enough". Kaio-ken x4 was his absolute limit at the time, seeing as he viewed Kaio-ken x3 as a possible means of death already, so x5 couldn't be something he was thinking was actually possible.
I can't see how given the fact that there are two statements saying he'd used up all of his energy and that his body was shredded post-beam struggle, plus Son admits that the Genki-Dama is the only way to win. Unless Vegeta had somehow lost more than half of his power by then, I don't see how he'd get beat by an exhausted Goku. Viz, vol.4, pg.52 Context: Son says Vegeta is coming back post-beam struggle Yajirobe: "B-b-but you're stronger than him, right?! I m-mean, if he comes back--!!" Son Goku: "I told you...pushed myself too hard...body's a wreck... I...could be at my limit..." Viz, vol.4, pg.56 Context: after Vegeta can't find the moon Kaio: "But Son Goku has no strength left... Even without his ape-form, the Saiyan may be more than enough for him... Our one hope is that he's gotten weaker...! If we could only hit him with the Genki-Dama!! Hit him with it the way he is now...!!!" Viz, vol.4, pg.58 Context: Vegeta has just returned Son Goku: "A Genki-Dama's the only way to win... B-but can I concentrate enough...?!" Edited by Pyrus, Jan 23 2012, 10:52 PM.
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Jan 24 2012, 01:13 AM Post #11 |
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Well Kaio-sama's statements could mean something that's true...i never realized Kaio-sama said that. But then Goku would just beat Vegeta with a Genki Dama like Kaio-sama said IMO. So Goku wins either way...instead of Kaioken it's Genki Dama.
Edited by Victorious, Jan 24 2012, 01:16 AM.
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| + Pyrus | Jan 24 2012, 01:24 AM Post #12 |
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It was the last resort, but only if it managed to hit him. So it's really still not a definitive way of saying Son Goku would've won. I don't think Vegeta would've let him do it.
Edited by Pyrus, Jan 24 2012, 01:24 AM.
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Jan 24 2012, 01:56 AM Post #13 |
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Well he managed to nearly get one off of Oozaru Vegeta, and blinded him with Taiyo-Ken. So it's definitely likely. Plus I don't think Goku would have been helpless or anything like he was against Oozaru Vegeta..he can get a Kaioken x 2 off we know that for sure..so he's got enough in the tank to kill Vegeta with Genki Dama.
I don't think he would have brought up KKx5 unless he could get one off. Edited by Victorious, Jan 24 2012, 01:59 AM.
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| ForagingPanda | Jan 24 2012, 02:22 AM Post #14 |
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And we come to the conclusion that Goku would have got the crap kicked out of him no matter what. *Clap* *Bow* *Exit stage right*. |
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| + Pyrus | Jan 24 2012, 02:49 AM Post #15 |
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It kind of goes both ways, though. Oozaru Vegeta was a much bigger target for the Genki-Dama (at the time), and he took up more space and could hit Son Goku easier. But by being a normal size, he'd have been able to sneak up on Son better, and could most likely dodge the attack due to not being the size of a mountain. And I still think that was more of Goku thinking that if he was able to do a Kaio-ken x5, that it wouldn't be of any use. But to each their own. |
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